Traveller-digest      Friday, October 22 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1243



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Another new 2D Graphic... 
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)
Re : Drive Destruct Sequencing
Re : cloning mammoths
Re : cloning mammoths
Re: Army missions...
Re: Vork. series
Re: NZ LARPS
Type B/C atmospheres
Re: "new" critter
Re: Space Opera?
Re: Drive DestructionSequencing
Re: "new" critter 
Re: Traveller - the 1970's with starships? (longish)
Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)
Re: Fnord, et al....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:43:38 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Another new 2D Graphic... 

> Just added a new one to my "Traveller Art" page at:
> 
>     http://www.ssgfx.com/traveller/art
> 
> entitled "Low Pass Over Inferno."  I'm still plodding along with just
> Bryce 4 and Photoshop, but sometime this year (I hope), I'll join
> Jesse and Andy in the ranks of Lightwave users! :^)

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DL'ed both pics for use as wallpaper.  <grin>

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 00:17:25 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

On 10/21/99 at 10:32 AM,  Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> said:

><snipped>
>>Doug Sinclair
>>Spacecraft Engineer

>	It has certainly been mentioned before that this list has
>	an impressive array of knowledge and skill available.
>	Maybe a job description or some such could be included on
>	Eris' TML roster.  It would be interesting to see what you
>	all do.

Maybe someday.  <g> For now, I just want a simple roster that people
can search to find fellow Travellers in their local areas.

I need to send a copy of the list to a couple of folks that asked
for it, too. That's for this weekend.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 00:42:03 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)

On 10/21/99 at 03:57 PM,  Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> said:

>>On the other hand, it'd take a major miracle level breakthrough to get
>>people to another star before we hit the Singularity. Or a *major*
>>disaster to hold back advances, but not the ability of people to spread
>>out. 

> What does "vingean singularity" mean?  I am unfamiliar with the term.

If someone hasn't answered this already, here's my take on Vinge's
Singularity...

The author Venor Vinge postulates that the advance of technology is
accelerating at such a rate that a point will be reached in a few
years where mankind's capabilities will be beyond our current
ability to understand.  This will be, Vinge suggests, a
social/cultural/technological singularity.

Vinge has written several books where he speculates at a post
singularity society, "The Peace War" was serialized in Analog back
in the early 80's, and expanded in a novel and a sequel.  The thing
is, Vinge's protagonists are all pre-sigularity individuals that
find some way to transistion past it, *they* are understandable.

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:03:15 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : Drive Destruct Sequencing

Anthony Jackson wrote :-

> Hm.  That's not very much; it probably won't even destroy the entire 
> ship (15 kilograms of high explosive per cubic meter just isn't 
> enough....)
> 

It will blow the internal contents of the hull into scrap. That should
deny them to anyone else, shouldn't it?
(15 X 1400 = 21 tonnes of explosive for your Type S - should do quite a
bit of internal damage...)

Craig Berry has discussed this point quite eloquently.

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:03:21 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : cloning mammoths

Robert Prior wrote :-

> Well, you've also got the problem that the baby is growing up inside a
> maternal elephant, not a maternal mammoth. The effects of the mother can't
> be ignored.
>
<snip>

> I could post a summary of this, but not quickly. Maybe our resident medico
> could chip in? Robert?
>
>
Let's back-track a bit. The nuclear transfer technique has a failure
rate IIRC of 60-80%. Hopefully enough viable mammoth cell nuclei can be
harvested.

Then the elephant egg needs to be placed. I'm not up-to-date on the
status of gamete/zygote intra-fallopian transfer in elephants.
Techniques used on cattle and horses may be adequate.

Will the nuclei harvested have normal chromosomes?
Will placentation occur? If the maternal immune response is not
appropriately modulated, rejection will take place.

How different are mammoth growth factors from elephant ones? They're
probably very similar, but there may be unforeseen effects arising from
the differences. Both mother and foetus 'signal' hormonally throughout
gestation.

Assuming the pregnancy gets to term, what happens after? Will mother
recognise its child?

>From a species standpoint, not at lot can be done about inbreeding at
this point in time, until homologous recombination techniques are
perfected in higher eukaryotes (as well as sequencing their genomes).
(Gene therapy trials have failed largely because expression of the
implanted genes has been inadequate. It would appear that they need to
be inserted into the genome where their defective counterparts are
located, not randomly - which is the current state of the art).

Chris S. : this is one reason why 'uplifting' animals is TL 14 voodoo,
rather than TL 9 - in the absence of reliable nanopore based high speed
DNA sequencing, and another Charles Darwin or three.
<g>

I apologise for any deficiencies in this presentation.

Robert O'Connor

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:03:27 +1000
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re : cloning mammoths

Eric Freitas wrote :-

> Why not just wait until the fertilized egg has divided a few times, treat it
> with telomerase (to bring the telomeres back up to their full length and
> thereby bringing the cell division limit back up to normal for a newborn)
> and let it grow to adulthood without the early onset of aging diseases?
> 

If telomerase is the only 'division counter' for cells (still a big
maybe), resetting it after 'a few divisions' will get leave you multiple
copies of the first cell, won't it?

This may help you with cloning, but have no effect on the subsequent
development of the organism(s).

The telomere theory of aging has been largely discredited - it was the
'magic bullet of aging' for the 1990's. Other factors are at play.

Ahh, if the problem was that easy to solve....

Robert O'Connor
Medico, Gamer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:59:53 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Army missions...

> > From: "The Roc" 
> > Conscription never came to the Australian military until Vietnam.  

From Me:
> I'm pretty sure that there was conscription into the Militia (_not_ the
> AIF) during WWII.  I'll check today, when I wander past the town library.

> If I'm wrong, I'll let you know.

Been and done.  Yes, part of the Australian Military Forces (AMF) was
conscripted.  The AMF was basically the pre-war militia, massively
expanded.  They were only authorised to serve in Australia and New Guinea,
although this was somewhat relaxed in about '43 or so, *after the crisis
period*, in order to convince the US that Australia was still pulling its
weight.  This was the same kind of process that led to the strategically
dubiously useful Tarakan campaign.

The Australian Imperial Forces (actually, the 2nd AIF, the first being the
WWI force), was an all volunteer group.  The pre-war regulars seem to have
been absorbed as cadres into both the AMF and AIF.

OBTRAV:  Planet Vegemite mobilises.  It raises a picked volunteer force for
Imperial service, and simultaneously massively expands its planetary forces
to protect its own system.  Later in the war, it changes its laws to allow
its forces to serve anywhere in its own subsector.  This is essentially a
political maneuver, to make the Imperium happy.

> From: "Michael Hughes" 
> And wasn't it weird to see lefties & hippies and all manner of your
> traditional stock standard passive folk baying for military intervention
> RE: ET. 

Yeah, this was weird.  I was watching the resulting bunfight on various
political mailing lists.  Phew!  Trust me - we _don't_ have flamewars. 
This was in the circles for which the following comment _isn't_ a joke:
> > The Australian Armed Forces are basically a reactionary force 
> 
> Da, Tovarisch!
 
The main thing seemed to be that the East Timorese Resistance were the ones
who called for the intervention.  This meant that the lefties closest to
them chose to go along with it.  Others didn't, and chucked a major nasty
at those who did.

Of course, it's useful to remember that most lefties aren't pacifists, and
are quite happy to support "just" wars.  In particular, they were
supporting the Timorese guerillas during the decades the Australian army
was training the Indonesian army....

OBTRAV:  The Ine Givar have been supporting a revolt for years.  For
various reasons, the Imperial government has changed from backing the
oppressive government, to supporting the rebels, and are preparing to send
in the troops.  The IG is split between factions that are prepared to
accept the intervention, and those preparing to change sides and support
their former enemies against their former allies.

Oh, and one last thought - my father was a 'Nasho' (National Serviceman). 
This must have been before 1961, and would probably have been late 50s. 
This was _before_ the main US involvement in Vietnam.  Weird.  I'll have to
check the dates.  It's got no relevance to Traveller, though.

This thread is a bit too "real world politics" and not Traveller enough.  I
think I'm going to leave it alone from now on.

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:23:01 -0500
From: Ira Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net>
Subject: Re: Vork. series

Kevin R. Pittsinger wrote:
>>William F. Hostman wrote:
>[part] Jackson Whole is not evil! Just that evil pays better.
>
>Let's face it. The wages of sin aren't taxed.
      Peter Trevor wrote:
      >Wasn't Al Capone convicted...[part]
Kevin responds:
>I didn't say they weren't *illegal*... [end]
Ohhhhh man. Could I go to town on this. But I'll restrain myself.
According to IRS pub.17 (Your Federal Income Tax 1998 ed.) illegal
income, such as stolen or embezzled funds, must be included in your
gross income. Doesn't mention anything about sin though; I'll ask my
fellow preparers at the Block office next week. I bet its Schedule C
income. ;-)
ObTraveller:  I read a book once IIRC called "The Tartarus Incident". It
was about a group of bureaucrats who were on a mission to do audits at a
frontier post. Their ship misjumped into a unexplored system and they
ended up crashing on a really nasty planet. You could use this as a
background for a rescue mission, or if you wanted to annoy your players
have'em all roll up bureaucrat characters and plop'em in the middle of
nowhere. Add bad weather and hostile xenomorphs; stir for 1 hour. Serve
with medikits <g>

Dan Roseberry (plop101) IMTU: t4 tg tt tc++ tm++ he+ zh vr as hi so dr+
ne+ da+ etc.
plop, (`plop) v., to drop with a sound like that of something flat (my
car, my plane, my scoutship, etc.) flat falling into water -n. the sound
of ploping -adv. with a plop.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:18:11 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: NZ LARPS

> >At the same time, the rise in LARPs has exposed RPGs to more people. This
> >very evening I will be attending a build-up/advertising event for a local
> >game based on the "Aliens" universe which will be covered by the local
> >media, and is held in a public building, literally just over the road
from
> >the New Zealand parliment buildings.

It was fun too, I played the brains behind a hot rock star "Hunter Killer"
whose latest single "Stand and Fight" was rocketing up the charts. I had to
make him decide to stay behind while the rest of us got off planet. Although
the fool was scared of the aliens, he was even more scared of losing face in
front of his fans, so I managed to manuever him into announcing live that he
would live up to his song and "Stand & Fight". Everything went according to
plan, except I did too well, and managed to convince someone I wanted to
come with us to stay behind too. Damn. Ah well, can always find another
one...

> Bugger. You kiwi's have all the fun.

Wel, you can always fly over the ditch and join us.

Have a look at www.apocalypse.gen.nz anyway, the guys have done a good job
on the site

> >And what ever you do, avoid any planet entirely peopled by Australians.
> >While they are freindly sorts, will crack open a tinny for you on the
> >slightest pretext, and do great barbaques, after a few days your crew
will
> >start talking like them, leading to uncontrollable outbursts of violence
> >from those who just can't stand the 'strine accent.
>
> You should have seen the sweat pour off may face, as I resisted the urge
to make
> a NZ LARP joke, then you relieve me by writing the above patagraph.
>
> So : Hear Goes......
>
> Alien V : THE LARP
>
> After smashing into the pacific ocean at the end of Alien IV, Ripley's and
the
> Alien dna are scraped off the hull and cloaned. Unfortunatly, they are
cloaned
> in New Zealand, who never got past the sheep cloaning of the 20th Century,
so
> now we have Alien Hybrid sheep running around NZ, and its the players job
to
> capture it.

Y'know, that's not far off the actual scenario....
<grin>
though no cloning was involved, you don't think crashing into the pacific
ocean is enough to kill an alien do you ?

In the first build-up event, it was the octopus alien that was the scariest,
and as things got worse, well,  imagine John Wyndham's book "The Kraken
Wakes", but with Aliens doing the harvesting.

 > Featuring the king of Gearheads : Peter Jackson! (with Fusion Lawnmower
Man
> Portable)

Well, y'never know, Peter is filming LoTR locally right now, and my
brother-in-law has been  in charge of sound recording for all of Peter's
films since "Heavenly Creatures"....

Damn small country New Zealand, went to get my photograph taken the other
day, and the photographer turned out to be the brother of a girl whose
husband I played in our college production of Arther Miller's(?) "Our Town"

> As well as The Best New Zealand Footbaler The South Sea Islands have ever
> produced : Jonah Lomu!

Now that would make the event sell, but seeing as Jonah once asked on live
television "Do they make Ferrari's in colours other than red?" while
standing in front of a yellow Ferarri, I think he'd need a bit of a hand.

> Gasp as the killer alien sheep consume the population! (exciting the male
> population in the process!). Drool in fright as New Zealand is turned into
a
> dark desolate wasteland (um it's that allready), and watch Sam Neil and
Caine
> the wonder dog save the day!

Rocket launcher's are the only way to deal with alien sheep !
Haven't you seen "Bad Taste" ?


Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:22:05 -0500
From: Ira Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net>
Subject: Type B/C atmospheres

Please Help(!) Bureaucrat needs help from TML scientists:

In a nutshell:  What typical kinds of atmospheric composition would make
Type B corrisive atmpospheres different from Type C insidious
atmospheres?

I've seen it stated somewhere (probably in tne or gt or both) that B/C
Type atmospheres both contain stuff like methane, ammonia, hydrogen,
etc. So I'm trying to understand how those chemicals would react one way
to cause B Type atmospheres and a different way to cause C Type
atmospheres. This got stuck in my head while I was fleshing out some
details on Frond/Sp March 0810 E9C3300-9 Lo nIn Fl  103Cs  F8V. I had a
copy of the Nyotekundu Sourcebook from 2300 and I thought (please
correct me if I'm wrong) that the planet Inferno seemed to be a good
example of a Type C atmosphere. So I try to check what it said about
Inferno's atmosphere against the Traveller standard atmosphere types.
Somewhere (again probably tne or gt) it says that both B/C atmospheres
have these kinds of chemicals. So, what would make them require
protective suits in type B and what would make those same chemicals
cause protective suits to fail in type C?

Oh yeah, Frond is not a Fjord but I have no idea what it has to do with
Fnord. Any suggestions?

Dan Roseberry (plop101) IMTU: t4tgtt tc++ tm++ he+ zhvrashiso dr+ ne+
da+ etc.
plop, (`plop) -n. the sound of plopping, as in my car plopped, my
scoutship plopped etc.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:48:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: "new" critter

In mail you write:

> Why not just wait until the fertilized egg has divided a few times, treat it
> with telomerase (to bring the telomeres back up to their full length and
> thereby bringing the cell division limit back up to normal for a newborn)
> and let it grow to adulthood without the early onset of aging diseases?

I suspect that the problem is the "treat with teleomerase" part.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:50:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

In mail you write:

>>>> Star Wars is the only *modern* Space Opera I can think of.
>>>
>>> Star Trek DS9?
>>>   Grand Sweep - Check
>>>   Larger than life Characters - Check
>>>   Escalating superweapon duels - Check
>>> (actual, I'd call it Space Soap Opera, but thats just me)
>>
>>Sorry, but the characters *aren't* sufficiently larger than life. And
>>there's nothing even *close* to a "real" superweapon.
>
> So Leonard, an Avatar (Emissary to the Prophets), the disgraced warrior who
> becomes a hero among the enemies of his people, only to be adopted by the
> family of a legendary general and then kills the despotic leader of the
> Empire who is the enemy of his family and so changes history, and the one of
> a kind shapeshifting alien who turns out the be the key to defeating the
> ravaging , unbeatable enemy empire aren't characters that are larger than
> life? Gee you must know some interesting people.

Please note. I didn't say that they weren't larger than life. I said
they weren't *sufficiently* larger than life to be Space Opera.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:04:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Drive DestructionSequencing

In mail you write:

>> And a fusion reactor should be no more capable of going "boom" than 
>> a coal fired powerplant. In both cases given *hours* of preparation,
>> you could rig up a blast, but it wouldn't be easy.
>
> I am a Chemical Engineer - which means I design chemical plants for a 
> living.  
> Most plants I design have large steam-raising systems, comparable to a large 
> power station.  Assuming I wanted to set one of these to "self destruct" I 
> could rig a plant like this to blow with remarkably limited preparation.  
> The main time would be taken up in walking between various key points:

I was thinking of a rather more extreme blast. With a coal fired plant,
especially the modern one that use powered coal in fluidized bed
burners, you should be able to get a near nuclear level explosion.
"All" you need to do is rig blowers that'll mix enough coal dust with
enough air. Provide an ignition source and there won't be anymore plant.

> (1) Go to store for relief valve "gags" (legal requirement for system 
> testing)
> (2) Climb to top of steam drum
> (3) Fit "gags" onto relief valves (most of these fit over like a metal 
> condom)
> (4) Close key high pressure valves (e.g. vent and pressure-ruducing 
> station).  
> Note that this is unlikely to be noticed as all the steam is passing
> to a huge turbine.  The valves I close are the ones that normally
> protect the system in the event of a turbine trip.
> (5) Trip the turbine [numerous methods]
> (6) You now have one or two minutes before the major pressure vessels 
> rupture.

Sounds like the way they ruined the Soviet oil field/refinery at the
start of Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising".

> and sniffs it.  The distinctive, to an Engineer, smell of jump coil coolant 
> means nothing to the pirate, and he fails to raise the alarm ....]

That's one of the messier ways to cause a power substation to
self-destruct. Arrange a coolant leak for one of the big transformers.
Thermal runaway occurs shortly thereafter, and the transformer explodes
most spectacularly. 

Hmmm. That might work onboard a ship.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:53:44 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: "new" critter 

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Why not just wait until the fertilized egg has divided a few times, treat it
> > with telomerase (to bring the telomeres back up to their full length and
> > thereby bringing the cell division limit back up to normal for a newborn)
> > and let it grow to adulthood without the early onset of aging diseases?
> 
> I suspect that the problem is the "treat with teleomerase" part.

From what I gather from what I read, we *still* can't beat the Hayflick Limit.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:24:23 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller - the 1970's with starships? (longish)

In mail you write:

> From: Robert O'Connor <robocon@ozemail.com.au>
>
>
>>IMHO, the official Trav universe doesn't get close to Vingean
>>singularity over 3 millennia of progress because it's not as easy as the
>>Terran neopositivists of the late 20th - early 21st century thought it
>>would be (notwithstanding the fact that Vinge didn't really start the
>>ball rolling until the late '80s).
>
>
> I'm not particularly fond of the Vingean singularity for a few different
> reasons. The first is that it's frequently used by opponents in any sort of
> Traveller technological / sociological debate who imply that such a path is
> a given (the same with the Banks AI model). The second is that, with all due
> respect to Banks and Vinge, their future is but one possible vision of the
> future.
>
> As a result, any AI path that doesn't end in a Banksian universe, or any
> combined use of technology that doesn't end in a Vingean singularity is
> ruled out. I disagree, largely for many of the same reasons that you do.

It pays to keep in mind that the "singularity" isn't going to be much
like Vinge's (lack of) description.

The whole *concept* of the singularity is that you reach a point where
the changes combine to make the resulting world/culture completely
incomprehensible to anyone from before that point. 

Consider that it's arguable that we've already had a few singularities.
As well as a *lot of "partial singularities". 

Language is one. Civilization may be another.

Writing and some technological advances are "partials". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:35:36 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)

In mail you write:

>>On the other hand, it'd take a major miracle level breakthrough to get
>>people to another star before we hit the Singularity. Or a *major*
>>disaster to hold back advances, but not the ability of people to spread
>>out. 

>         What does "vingean singularity" mean?  I am unfamiliar with the term.

It's based on a concept from some of Vernor Vinge's SF. Check out the
combined volume "Across Realtime". 

The basic idea is that given some fairly "simple" assumptions, it seems
inevitable that technology and society will interact faster and
stranger until a point is reached at which it's no longer possible to
predict (or understand) the result. 

He called it a singularity for the same reason the center of a black
hole is a singlarity. It's a point where the rules quit working and
just tell you "you're on your own". And in math, such points are
"singularities". 

As I recall, an X-Y graph of tangent versus angle has singluraitie ever
180 or 360 degrees (I forget which). From one side of the "line" the
function is rapidly approaching positive infinity as a limit. From the
other side the function is rapidly approaching *negative* infinity as a
limit. So what value *does* it have *at* the line? :-)

Anyway, in practical terms, at some point in the relatively *near*
future, unless we hit a major unsuspected barrier or two, life will be
so different that we *can't* imagine it. 

Don't get too worried though. "Near" could be 30 years, or it could be
300 years. It's unlikely to be much sooner or much later. 

Someone once tried to point out the problems of playing in even
*foreseeable* "highly advanced" futures. His example was Romans trying
to play an RPG set in the present. 

A few of the examples I recall involved things like having to point out
that they *could* get to someplace 30 miles away easily. It'd only take
a few minutes in an automobile, rather than hours in a chariot. And that
they could *talk* to people hundreds of miles away. 

The point was that not only were these "common" background items things
the players would have to be informed of and *learn* to take into
account in play, but that these were things that the *characters*
weren't supposed to give a second thought to. 

There's only so far you can go before the players aren't able to react
"properly" for the background. If they have to stop and think before
going "Oh yeah, I can just make a phone call" or "Gee, do you suppose
there was a security camera that caught that?" then they can't *really*
play the role, because it's just too *different*.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:55:38 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Fnord, et al....

In mail you write:

>> Matthew Bond wrote:
>> > 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Keven R. Pittsinger <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
>> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
>> > Date: 21 October 1999 07:42
>> > Subject: Re: Traveller Auction Update
>> > 
>> > >> > > "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn fnord."
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Careful.  I just seen the fnord.
>> > >>
>> > >> Wait until you start pining for 'em.
>> > >
>> > >That's pining for the *fyord*, not pining for the fnord.
>> > 
>> > Its "Fjord", fnord <g>
>> 
>> Narf!  Zort!  Poit!  Troz!  (sorry, couldn't resist)
>
> Pinkie, I think I am going to have to hurt you now...
>
> (Anybody *else* miss that show??)

"We've called you in to investigation strange occurences in the vicinity
of Acme Labs. We can't seem to find a correlation between any of the
lab personnel and the occurences though. That's why we brought you
in... "

Meanwhile....

"Yes, Pinky. All we have to do is locate the lost Imperial Warrant and
 then we can conquer the world!"

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1243
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